The Escapist is running an article titled I Want My D&D. Supposedly the author pens a treatise about the downfall of the CRPG (Computer Role Playing Game), but I find it more fitting as a critique of D&D in general – and I find it even extrapolates out well to the new 4E.
It seems to me that the days of creating a well thought out and personalized character are gone for the most part. Especially with the advent of 4E, players are being shoehorned into roles they may or may not want to play. Any group that wants to deviate from this now has to come up with a fairly complex set of houserules, and make sure those houserules are balanced against the rest of the game. My idea of a great RPG is one that provides a framework for me to create a character, and play that character in a group with others, without being shoehorned into any specific role. If I want to play a meek cleric that gets by solely on his healing powers, or a third-story thief that has a personal rule against killing, I should be able to. 4E seeks to strip that customization from me – too many of the powers are focused on the encounters, and too little are focused on the roleplaying.
What are your groups doing to combat this, if anything? Or are you going with the flow? My group has switched from 3.5E to a game called Savage Worlds. While SW has it’s (minor) problems, its a fairly simple system, and creating almost any type of character you want is possible. We’re running a The Savage World of Solomon Kane campaign right now, and having a blast.
I’d love to hear your thoughts, and how your group is proceeding.
Technorati Tags: 4e, escapist, roleplaying, savage worlds, solomon kane, role playing, dungeons and dragons, d&d
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July 21st, 2008 at 12:56 pm
1 word. Eberron. Its still on the 3.5 rules, with some tweaks, and the world is really excellent and ripe for roleplaying.
July 21st, 2008 at 1:13 pm
4e is simply a way to make table top RPGs look like computer games – specifically MMORGPS. I play both, and enjoy both for what they are.
A table-top game’s main strengths though are the customization of it’s characters and the ability for players and a GM to do their own thing – not be constrained by rules.
The MMORPG rules are just boilded down, committee generated shlop created to make some semblance of role playing online.
July 21st, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Al – Thats the problem with 4E – they want me to play their game, in their vision. I want to play *my* game, with *my* vision. I just want a framework to play that in.
Eberron? no, just no. Eberron has no identity – its like a fantasy world that tries to appeal to everyone simultaneously, with robots, fantasy, dinosaurs, steampunk etc all mixed in. Kinds schizo for me
July 21st, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Solomon Kane is also a beautiful book – worth having just to have a truly beautifully produced rpg…
July 21st, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Solomon Kane is a beautiful book, and very well written, also. It presents a very compelling world. A top-notch production all around. Other gaming companies should take note of what can be had for $50.
If you aren’t familiar with Solomon Kane, read the books by Robert E. Howard, and you’ll be drawn in. Makes for some very fun – and different – roleplaying, too. Highly recommended.
Though, I’d like to try the Pirates of the Spanish Main game (which also uses Savage Worlds rules) someday, too.
July 21st, 2008 at 2:23 pm
4E is the first D&D game I’ve liked. I’ve played RPGs sincd 2nd Ed AD&D. I hated it. I played 3e, I liked it until I saw just how useless some classes were, and how ridiculous other classes were. I hated trying to come up with fun and interesting skill challenges, without knowing what skills my group even took. Nothing like setting up a fun situation that the group has to work around using their skills, only to find no one has a skill that’s appropriate.
Personally, I can Role Play just fine without any sort of rules system at all really. But when I want to play a game, where there’s a set goal (like resolving combat), then I want a good rules system that is balanced, and makes combat fun for everyone in the party. I’ve played a few games now, and I think the system is fantastic.
As far as ‘personalized’ characters, I don’t understand what the big deal is. As long as you don’t want things that are applicable in combat, I would let you customize whatever cosmetic effects you’d like. Personalize to yer heart’s content. RP needs no mechanics, just a fun, somewhat impartial GM. Games need mechanics, and need to be fun for all involved.
July 21st, 2008 at 9:35 pm
You’ve ALWAYS had to balance out in-house rules/skills. I would argue that having that huge list of powers for every class would make it easier to see how to balance out a custom skill you are trying to make, instead of trying to judge based on a handful of feats. I actually find combat to be FAR more interesting with the daily/encounter/at will power structure. Almost ALL of the utility powers are applicable out of combat, and the books give you plenty of framework to customize the hell out of your character. D&D is all about the power of imagination, and openly invites you to bend the rules when you want to. If you haven’t found a rule set you like yet, you haven’t tried hard enough.
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Andy
Thats true, to an extent – you’ve always had to house rule things. However, the trend in the RPG industry is towards more utilitarian rulesets (see Savage Worlds, Gurps [old school] and maybe even Burning Wheel), where the rules are simple, and there is little ‘railroading’ of character concepts, classes, etc.
I’ll use Savage Worlds as an example, only cause I’m fairly familiar with it. Basically, there are no classes. Your character is differentiated based on stats, skills, and ‘edges and hindrances (sort of like feats). My first character was a musketeer with a holy bent, and my new one is more of a horse-based cavalryman. And I’m not ‘limited’ to certain powers etc based on an arbitrary class – if I want a power, or ability, I simply take the appropriate Edge or skill (assuming I meet prerequisites, of course). There are no templates, no ‘this class is a Leader, that class is a Blaster’ etc. Just more freedom, to play how I want, right out of the box.
WotC shot straight for the MMORPG crowd. Who knows if they scored a hit yet, too early to tell, but it’s simply not my cup of tea.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:20 pm
When Gygax created D&D, it was derived from tabletop wargames.
When you log on to World of Warcraft, you pick one of three classes (the “tank”, the “damage per second” and the “healer”) and can pick some different artwork for your character. If you try to deviate from those three classes then you’ll never get accepted into any group, and never get to do most of the quests.
We are, apparantly, going back to where we all started – war games with very small numbers of units, and one player per unit.
“Personalize to yer heart’s content. RP needs no mechanics, just a fun, somewhat impartial GM.”
That’s fine, true, and correct, and given that a computer with a sense of fun is a little tricky to build, would explain exactly why the MMORPG scene is a little different to the tabletop roleplaying scene 20 years ago.
The “rules heavy” crowd definately leans to the wargaming side of the game which is fine, but its easy to see why they don’t like rule systems that don’t cater to the non-combat-game side.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
i’m with the author on Savage Worlds. I do have the 4e stuff, and it’s a fun game to run and play, but it does try to shoehorn people into predefined roles. it’s taken too many of the ideas from MMOs and tried to adapt them to a roleplaying game, narrowing player options in the interests of trying to drum up a larger player base.
I’ve been playing with Savage Worlds for only a couple of months, but the system is very flexible, it’s amazingly easy to adapt pretty much any game setting to use it (much moreso than GURPS, in my opinion), and character creation is easy and fun. Combat is fast and vicious, and the system has some nice mechanics to help keep roleplaying in the game.
I’m a long-time DnD fan, and it pains me to do so, but if I have to recommend 4E or Savage Worlds, I’d urge people to take a look at Savage Worlds. It’s easier to convert an existing 3.x game to Savage Worlds, and I think it retains the spirit of roleplaying games.
August 1st, 2008 at 5:32 am
Personally for fantasy roleplaying I prefer White Wolf’s Exalted. It features a rich, unique setting and a simple, quick and well-balanced rule system with a broad level of character customization. There are just enough rules to make it a game, and just enough structure to suggest archetypes for the unimaginative. Likewise I prefer the new World of Darkness for modern horror and science fiction, which is a strictly open-ended system suggesting within the rule structure only thematic conventions familiar to any fan of shows like X-Files, Buffy or Supernatural.
That’s not to say I’ll turn down a game of good ol’ D&D though, if the setting is unique and the DM is passionate about the game. D&D’s plug-and-play characters and NPCs and mix-and-match expansion books and published adventures can easily be mashed together for a unique experience. I’ve run and played games in D&D that would barely be recognizable if not for the game mechanics; right now I’m running a mash-up gritty post-apocalyptic / pulp adventure / fantasy horror with themes inspired by Vance’s Dying Earth and Egyptian mythology. The only generic race present is the Human, and nobody played one. I cut all the default divine and arcane magic classes in favor of those found in various Psionic supplements, with some adjustments. Thanks to the sheer variety available in D&D, I’ve been able to create a unique and compelling game with a minimum of house rules.
It’s the out-of-the-box generic fantasy world and mediocre, often unwieldy mechanics religiously adhered to by newbies that bring the D&D game down.
August 17th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Hi All,
I came across this post when trying to find some rpg-like computer game after the disbandment of my party(for now at least…)
and i have to say that i feel the smae way as the guy that said “4e is simply a way to make table top RPGs look like computer games – specifically MMORGPS.”.
i felt this way about 3e actually and we have stuck with adnd2e and been happy with it. since al of the supplementary kits and what-nots can assist in giving any character, well- CHARACTER and not statistics. i felt that that edition had more “soul” than 3e. i havent checked out 4e yet though maybe it is better….
regardless- anybody know of a good BalursGate2 type of newish pc rpg?
May 3rd, 2010 at 9:39 am
great post as usual!
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